pd06ap98 Statement on House Action Against Legislation Proposing a Uniform...

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you don't have good leaders, good structures, and a good mission; good 
things will happen when you do.
    And the government--Mr. Mandela, Mr. Mbeki--no one can be expected 
to run a free government of free people and organize every minute of 
every day. That's why the media is important in a free society. That's 
why all these NGO's are important. That's why the private sector is 
important.
    And I don't mean to oversimplify this, but I just think that--we 
visited one of these microcredit projects in Uganda in a little village. 
The village is getting organized around village women borrowing small 
amounts of money, starting their businesses. They all of a sudden become 
leaders; they become role models. People see that life can be different 
than it is. We're now, with our aid programs, funding over $2 million of 
those loans a year around the world. If every government giving foreign 
aid had that kind of priority, you could literally revolutionize the 
economic structure of villages in developing countries on all 
continents.
    So I want to encourage you. I'm just so impressed by what you said, 
but there is no simple answer. You've got to have more leaders, more 
structure, and the right mission. And we have to organize our aid 
program, our partnerships, everything else trying to sort of work toward 
that goal.
    I'm sitting here listening to you talk and I just wish that there 
were--I don't know, however many it would take--200,000 just like you 
out there with the same background and training. But I hope you'll be 
encouraged. And I think that the real trick is going to be--what you 
said, I thought, was very important about after the freedom was achieved 
and after Mr. Mandela was elected and the victory, there must have been 
a lot of people who said, ``I'm just tired of it; I just want to go back 
to my life.'' You want to quit the public space. But if you do,

you create a vacuum before the structures are there that would get people 
in that are tired.

    You know, in our country people get tired of politics. It's not 
particularly terrible. Twelve people go line up and run for office. You 
see what I mean? You'll get there. You'll reach a time when people can 
make--you'll have the luxuries of making these kind of choices. You 
don't have that luxury yet because you don't have the critical mass of 
organized life and a leadership funnel that will take care of all the 
children that are like those kids that are in the uniforms out there 
singing.
    What were you going to say? I'm sorry.

[A participant stressed the importance of learning from people such as 
the teachers and educators who have done extraordinary things under 
extremely difficult circumstances to rebuild civil society structures. 
Mrs. Clinton stressed the importance of finding specific areas that 
work, such as schools, microenterprises, or citizen participation 
institutions, and replicating them or creating that capacity in other 
communities and on a broader scale.]

    The President. That may be something that the government could do 
more of. For example, if you had, let's say, every week there would be 
on your television station a special on a health program, a housing 
program, an education program that's really working--what are the common 
elements, how were the leaders picked, how is it structured? And then 
you say, okay, we're going to fund our health, housing, and education 
programs. They don't have to be just like this one, because cultures are 
different, places are different, facts are different. But there are 
common elements; everyone has to meet that.
    What I found, even in the United States--Hillary was kind about 
this. It drives me crazy. I consider it to be the major failure of my 
public life that every problem in our society today is being solved by 
somebody

[[Page 531]]

somewhere, and I can't get it to be replicated. So this is a generic 
problem of democracy, but it's one I think, since you're trying to catch 
up and you're trying to move in a hurry, in a funny way you might have 
less inbred resistance to this than we do.
    Mrs. Clinton. Right. I agree with that.
    The President. You could make it like an exciting thing.
    Let me ask you the question in a different way, because we may be 
about to run out of time. Suppose you were the person--suppose the 
United States and every other country just sent you the money in our aid 
program--we just sent it to you. And it was all in one big pile, every 
country in the world giving aid to South Africa of any kind, and it went 
in your bank. You opened a bank account and you put it in, Chris, and 
you got to write a check, and the rest of you got to say how you would 
spend the aid money, all of it. What would you spend it on? How would 
you do it? Where would you start? If you had that kind of resource to 
start, how would you go about doing it? You might not want to answer the 
question now, but it's helpful to think about it in those terms.

[A participant responded by praising the United States for providing 
funding for a conflict prevention center which would benefit the entire 
continent, adding that such sustainable aid to set up institutions that 
deal with violence and reconciliation, education, and technology would 
be the most significant contribution.]

    Q. Can I add one very quick ingredient to that? I think that one of 
the gravest dangers for this vibrant civil society, which is such an 
important guardian of democracy and vital for entrenching democracy in 
this society, is that the thrust towards an obligation to self-
financing, in social work and education sectors in particular, runs the 
gravest risk of forcing those of us who have been entrenched at the 
grass-roots level to focus away from our target constituencies in order 
to find the people who have the money, because these are the people who 
don't--and that in some senses, that is the most important issue. For me 
in my public life, which I admit is somewhat less public than yours--
[laughter]--my greatest frustration----
    The President. Lucky you. [Laughter]
    Q. ----my greatest frustration has been the point at which we 
believe we've got, in the 40 schools that we work in in Soweto, a pilot 
intervention that is unbelievably worthy of duplication. We don't have 
the means to do it, outside of a desperate attempt to lobby, beg, 
plead--and I'm glad Kumi got some money from the private sector, because 
I didn't. And it's the flip side of that coin.
    And unless there is some sustainability in the areas of victim aid, 
in the areas of dealing with kids, constituencies that can't pay--if 
there isn't something in place which enables us to operate on the basis 
that we are sustainable and that we are secure, we don't have the 
creative space to do what you say.
    The President. Well, it may be that what we're trying to do with our 
aid program and some of the signals we're going to send during and after 
this trip will help that a little bit. I hope it will.
    I know we've got to go. I've got to ask one more question, though. 
For those of you who work with children in conflict resolution--and 
you're still dealing with the racial tensions with kids--do you ever 
talk to them about similar problems of people who look alike: the Irish 
problem, the Bosnian problem, the Middle Eastern problem?
    Mrs. Clinton. The Rwanda problem?
    The President. The Rwanda problem, although the Hutus and the Tutsis 
don't look alike to those who are sensitive. But still, you see what 
I'm--in Bosnia, the Croatians, the Serbs, and the Muslims are 
biologically indistinct; they are what they are by accident of political 
history over the centuries. And in the Middle East, the Arabs and the 
Jews are both Semitic people. And in Ireland, there are religious 
differences, but otherwise there is no difference, and they still fight 
over what happened 600 years ago.
    So do you use this? I have a reason for asking the question, but 
tell me.

[A participant described his work with a diverse group of South African 
young people, involving use of a play as a stimulus for discussions to 
bridge political and racial differences. He noted that the group had 
been successful in demonstrating tolerance and had visited Northern 
Ireland, Sarajevo, and Rwanda as well to spread its message.]

[[Page 532]]

    The President. That's good.

[A participant cited the Holocaust as another example of conflict and 
said that young people must be graphically shown that reconciliation is 
possible]

    The President. What you said is really what I was thinking about 
because when I talk, when I go to Bosnia and I talk to those people, 
it's like their deal is the only deal in the world, their division. When 
I deal in the Middle East, and I talk to the Irish and I have to listen 
to it, every time I see the main players I deal with, I know I'm going 
to have to get History 101. [Laughter] It's like they've got a tape 
recorder, and I'm going to have to listen for 3 or 4 minutes before we 
can get down to business.
    I don't say this in a critical way, but I think it's important for 
people to understand that everywhere in society, almost, there is like a 
battle of human nature that goes on, and there is a strong tendency to 
divide, whatever your world is, up between us and them. And you can't. 
People should never give up whatever their ``us'' is, you just want it 
be ``us'' and ``we'' instead of ``us'' and ``them.'' So that's why I 
ask.
    Thank you so much. Good luck to you.

Note: The President spoke at 1 p.m. at R.P. Maphanzela Primary School.


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[Page 532-533]
 
Monday, April 6, 1998
 
Volume 34--Number 14
Pages 525-568
 
Week Ending Friday, April 3, 1998
 
Interview With Johnathan Rodgers of the Discovery Channel in 
Johannesburg

March 28, 1998

African Education Initiative

    Mr. Rodgers. Mr. President, I was in Uganda when you announced your 
African education initiative. It was very, very impressive. Is there a 
role for foundation and the private sector in helping us?
    The President. Oh, absolutely. There's no way that just through 
Government aid from the United States and other countries we can do all 
this. And a lot of operations like the Discovery Channel can even more 
efficiently hook up these schools, give them the basics that they need, 
a television set, a satellite, the VCR's. Then eventually we'll be able 
to come in with the computers, and we'll be able to have interactive 
access to the Internet and even interactive communication across 
national lines.
    But we have to begin to put in place a technological infrastructure 
in these schools. And since we can now leapfrog a lot of the early 
investments that schools would have had to make 10 or 20 years ago, we 
can actually do it more cheaply. In other words, they won't have to have 
a thousand volumes in their library that they could never afford if we 
can do enough through educational television.
    Mr. Rodgers. You also talked about the relationship, in this case, 
between one school, I believe it's in Silver Spring, Maryland, and a 
school in Uganda.
    The President. That's right.
    Mr. Rodgers. Are there other things American kids can do to help 
here in Africa in terms of education?
    The President. Oh, yes. First of all, I think it's important to set 
up as many partnerships as possible. And if the children have access to 
the Internet in the African schools, if we can get that done, then they 
can actually communicate directly through the Internet.
    But there are lots of other things we can do. If we have 
partnerships--children in American schools, for example, could have book 
drives and send books to children--a lot of children in African schools 
don't have access to any of the books that American kids take for 
granted. Then they could write back and forth and talk about the books 
they're reading. Or they could make sure they have a television and 
access to some of your ``Discovery'' tapes, and then they could write 
back and forth and talk about what they'd seen together. I think that 
this is the kind of thing that we want to promote more of.
    Mr. Rodgers. Great. And the last question, Mr. President--I think a 
lot of Americans would be surprised that in many of the African 
countries boys are treated differently than girls. Do you see a change 
coming there?
    The President. Yes, we're working hard to support that. But you see 
this in a lot of developing nations around the world, where boys and 
girls have a different role in traditional society and where girls have 
not traditionally been educated. Now, as they move

[[Page 533]]

to a more modern society, young girls have the same aspirations: They 
want to develop their minds; they want to go out and live their lives. 
And we've worked very hard to support education for young girls.
    One of the things I like best about the Ugandan educational 
initiative is that they want universal primary education for all their 
children. And they're going out and recognizing the schools where the 
enrollment and the graduation rates are just as high for girls as for 
boys.
    That's a big priority. But it's a big change for Africa, but Africa 
is not alone in that. That's a worldwide issue we have to keep working 
on.
    Mr. Rodgers. Thank you very much, sir.
    The President. Thank you.

Note: The interview began at 2:12 p.m. at the R.P. Maphanzela School. 
Johnathan Rodgers is president of Discovery Networks, U.S. A tape was 
not available for verification of the content of this interview.


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[Weekly Compilation of Presidential Documents]
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[Page 533]
 
Monday, April 6, 1998
 
Volume 34--Number 14
Pages 525-568
 
Week Ending Friday, April 3, 1998
 
Remarks at the Memorial to Hector Peterson in Soweto, South Africa

March 28, 1998

    Thank you very much. Premier Motshekga, Father, Foreign Minister 
Nzo, Ambassador Sonn, Ambassador Joseph, Mayor Mayathuma, Mayor Mogase. 
I'd like to especially thank Walter Sisulu and Mrs. Sisulu for being 
here and Helen Suzman and Dorothy Molefe. Thank you all so much for 
coming.
    I thank the Soweto Heritage Trust for their work on this magnificent 
memorial. And I thank the people of Soweto for making Hillary and me 
feel welcome here.
    This solemn place commemorates forever the death of one young boy, a 
death that shocked the world into a new recognition of the vast evil of 
apartheid. Today, as South Africa enjoys what our President Lincoln 
called ``a new growth of freedom,'' we remember the historic events of 
this decade and we remember that none of them could have been possible 
without the bravery of the young men and women of the townships, who 
took to the streets in protest, many of whom were cut down in struggle, 
more of whom were damaged by prison and torture. We remember generations 
divided by a system that denied them equality, justice, and the 
opportunity to make the most of what God gave them at birth.
    Here in the heart of Soweto, on behalf of all the American people, 
we also honor those who led the fight over so many decades to end 
apartheid. Some of their names are now well known all around the world: 
Biko, Tambo, Hani, Suzman. Many others have names that most of us who 
are not South African have never heard and now will never know, black, 
white, colored South Africans who answered the call of conscience. But 
all of them together, by their unyielding refusal to accept injustice, 
summoned men and women around this country, and indeed around the world, 

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